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	The Great Moghul   Interview CD     INTERVIEW 4 (Tracks 11,12) A small office at a museum, John Elgin talking to Professor Roland Davies John OK, I’ll just say a word or two first. Um. This is John Elgin and I am talking to Professor Roland Davies at the Wellman Museum, who has kindly agreed to tell me a bit about The Great Moghul ruby. Roland Er, it’s not a ruby, you know. It’s a spinel. John I thought it was something called a balas ruby? Roland Which is just another name for the gemstone called spinel. John Oh. Well, anyway, whatever you can tell me I know will be a great help. Maybe we could start with this spinel then. So, it’s a sort of ruby, isn’t it? Roland Spinel, right. The romantic spinel. It’s not a ruby in fact, although the red spinel has always been highly prized and was for many years, centuries, often confused with the real ruby. Real ruby is made of corundum. The spinel is a crystal of magnesium aluminium oxide. It’s a slightly less dense than ruby, and a little softer too, and comes in a range of colours, a deep, intense red being the most prized. John So it’s not real ruby, then? Roland No, that’s right. But from the middle ages spinel was often referred to as "balas ruby", as you mentioned. The name apparently comes from an ancient word for Badakhshan, a province in the north of Afghanistan which was renowned for centuries for the size and quality of the violet-red gems found there. A fact well known to your Moghul emperors, of course. Marco Polo mentions the mines, in fact. And some of the most fabled stones of history are great balas rubies. John I see. Roland Oh yes. The most famous of all is in the Crown Jewels - the Black Prince’s Ruby. Few precious stones have such a romantic history as the Black Prince’s Ruby. It probably also came from Badakshan’s famous balas ruby mines in Afghanistan, but the first mention of the stone was in fourteenth-century Spain when it was owned by one Don Pedro, known as the Cruel, who gave it to the Black Prince in 1367 as payment for military help John Hence the name. Roland Hence the name, exactly so. But the story continues. The stone played a part at the Battle of Agincourt, too. It was worn by the English King Henry Fifth upon his helmet, and it survived the battle dspite a mighty blow from a battle-axe that nearly killed the King and broke away a portion of the crown. John So, quite a story Roland Indeed, quite a story. The gem has passed through the hands of numerous British monarchs, and is now mounted in the front of the Imperial State Crown, just above the famous Cullinan Diamond. It’s huge, about two inches across and it may weigh some 140 carats. John Is that a lot? Roland You could say that. John And what about our Great Moghul? Roland Well, there’s not much to report, I’m afraid. I had a bit of luck though. The so-called Great Moghul usually refers to the emperor Jahangir Shah who ruled in Northern India the early 1600’s. Now the English Ambassador to the Moghul court at that time was a certain Sir Thomas Roe, and he sounds pretty like the Roe you mentioned was the original owner of your stone. So, it’s not stretching the imagination to far to suggest that your stone was a gift, perhaps, from Jahangir to Sir Thomas Roe? It would certainly account for the name the stone apparently bore. Was your stone engraved, do you know? John Engraved? Roland Yes, with characters, anything like that. John I don’t know, I don’t think so. Why? Roland Well many of these great spinels were engraved, you see, with the names of their owners, that sort of thing. John I see Roland No matter, quite probably a gift from Jahangir to the English Ambassador wouldn’t have warranted that sort of treatment. John But do we know anything concrete about the gem? I don’t really know what I am supposed to be looking for. There doesn’t seem to be any sort of photograph or drawing of it. Roland I know. I didn’t find a mention of a spinel such as yours in any recent literature, so that’s encouraging if only to indicate that it hasn’t turned up and been sold, or written up, in the recent past. John Can you tell me how I might recognise it then? Roland Recognise it? If it’s anything like the size your great aunt mentioned, then it’ll be big. Like the top joint of your thumb. Longer than wide, probably somewhat irregular and lightly polished, as I said, like an uneven clear pebble of a deep and intense red colour. But the same could be said of any large red spinel. I don’t know what you can find to prove it’s your Great Moghul ­ that’s more your line. John Would it be worth a lot? I mean, I feel I ought to know. Roland Without seeing it, who can say? If we could determine it’s history then it could be very valuable. Otherwise, maybe, as much as fifty thousand, who knows? John Fifty thousand pounds? Roland Perhaps. But you’ve got to find it first, and that doesn’t sound like it’ll be easy. John I know. I know. Anyway, look, thanks for your advice. Can I give you anything . . . . Roland Lord, no. It’s been interesting doing a bit of detective stuff. Bit dry and dusty museum work sometimes. But what you can do, if you do find it, is bring it here and let me write it up for you ­ now that would be thrilling. John Of course. I’d be happy to. Roland Is that it, then? John Yes, I think so unless there’s anything else. Roland I’ve haven’t got anything, except to wish you luck, of course. John Thanks. OK.   End of Interview
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